Since Eizzy.K Decided to jump the gun and write part two in the comments of the first one, rather than repeat what he/she/it said I'll quote:
"Its true, capitalism and religion have always gone hand in hand, but it’s the capitalists, those smart bastards, who used and abused religion for their own gain, have been doing so even in biblical days…eg. The Pharasis…there’s even a part in the bible when they used the church as a market place of sorts and Jesus flipped out…yeah…
The Communists ( less tactful than the capitalists) tried to get rid of religion, and we all know how communism was such a flop.
Looking back on time, like the French revolution, when people got fed up of giving money to the church which ended up in peoples pockets, they rebelled and banned religion (but mainly because it was so connected to the monarchy ).
Revolution became their religion, but even then, after the death of king Louis and the establishment of the first form of democracy (committee of public safety then council system)-all run by the leading revolutionists- people in power still abused this system to suit their own personal gain and interests (like sending people they just didn't like to the guillotine as “traitors” yet they had done nothing).
It was a bloody time, and people came to hate them even more than they hated the church!
Eventually Napoleon came along and re established Catholicism as well as practice of any other religion in France.
He recognized the importance of religion, called it “the social cement” as it had a way of keeping people together…
still, he re established it and manipulated it in his favor, although on the surface the kept the state and church separate…"
To add, Eizzy says they go hand in hand but are not a result of one another. Which i agree with but they are tools of one another. As Eizzy said, the French did get rid of it but it ended up being anarchy and mass executions. Again this is reductionist but the point is, religion is/was a tool of social order.
The Church seems to be losing power but they still seem to be able to do what the rest of us can't. Elude that bastard the Tax man. Now there is an act of God. Next time that IRS bastard comes knocking it may be an idea to form a cross with your fingers. See if it repels him...
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6 comments:
Little unfair to say communism was a flop - they wen't from a pre-industrialised nation to space rockets in a period far, far quicker than we did.
OK so it didn't work out in the long run - partly to do with the cold war and partly to do with internal screw-ups - but for a while it did a good job and progressing a large portion of the world in to the modern age.
That's right, 'flop' is a little harsh. Personally i agree that communism achieved a lot but then again, Hitler's Nazi regime achieved a whole lot too in a very small amount of time... My point is, a lot of these systems that drive the world forward work great, but the question is, at what cost?
These systems either work for the happiness of the individuals (Capitalism) or the greatness and growth of the country (Communism)
I’m not disputing the fact that development in eastern Europe did resulted from communism, Infact I thought Stalin’s 5 year development plans were genius, and the fact that he achieved them in 4 years commendable (only if our African leaders could be this efficient!) BUT like mullmeister stated, all this at what cost??
The communists managed to do all this through the policy of war communism, in which ALL the countries resources were directed at rapid industrialization, the problem with this is that it ignored peoples basic needs, production of essential consumer goods and seriously drained the economy!
…unfortunately by the time Stalin realized this, the cold war began and the people’s needs were ignored once again for the sake of the protection and expansion of the USSR.
That’s why when it came down to choosing between capitalism and communism , people opted for capitalism…
Infact after the rapid industrial growth and war communism, Stalin noticed the lack of drive and motivation in the working class, so he introduced a counter policy of a retreat from communism, in which he actually used capitalist incentives and systems in place in order to fix this, as well as the economy.
Communism needed capitalism to stay afloat.
This is the major flaw of communism, which I think cost it greatly. It fails to acknowledge that as human beings we are selfish, motivated by gain, and love to be recognized as individuals, and we need religion!
The reality is that the state is meant to work for us, not us working for the state…state nations were created to serve (or reach an agreed comprimise) on everones intrests, not just the rulers of a nation...its ment to be a system, a fair system that replaced the biased and unfair rulr of monarchies.
when it fails to do this, the system fails.
I wouldn’t go as far to claim that communism was a failure, but rather it had fundamental flaws that caused it to be a flop. Unlike capitalism, which has its shares of flaws no doubt, but it still works, worldwide up till today!
Communism was a good idea, and it shall remain an good ideology, but can never work practically, the harsh truth is that we are not all equal, never have been and will never be.
For instance, communism emphasized equality, but was Stalin or Lenin considered just another communist? Nope, they were not equal to the common man, and didn’t expect to be treated like one. Someone has to lead, and leaders have always put themselves above others, a hierarchy of sorts is always created, a community cannot survive without one!
Interestingly the only leader I know who was truly one of the people was Jesus. He was meant to be their Lord, yet at the dinner table he would be the one to offer and insist to wash his disciples feet…
P.S. LoL at the making a cross sign to the tax man!!
would it make you feel better if the church was taxed? LoL...intresting suggestion...
oh and i'm a SHE...lol
I like how this became a very Communist Vs Capitalist debate. I was considering throwing Anarchy into the mix but it is irrelevant.
From Christianity to social structures. Looks like you have a lot of pent up frustration inside. Must come from listening to Julis's Socialist ideas.... (Julis, Babis and Lizis)
Mull~ "Elude that bastard the Tax man. Now there is an act of God."
And all this time, you've been looking for modern day miracles!
Eizzy~ "The reality is that the state is meant to work for us, not us working for the state...Communism...can never work practically, the harsh truth is that we are not all equal, never have been and will never be."
Excellent! You are one smart cookie!
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